討論逐字稿 Women's Values (discussion transcript)


Last friday we discussed the TED talk given by Halla Tomasdottir, A Feminine Response to Iceland's Financial Crash

Discussion:
Name the valuable qualities of women who are close to you. What are they good at? What are their strengths? What do you admire about them? What can they do that you wish you could personally do?
She is independent, she can analyze her views and others' views clearly, and not be influenced by personal emotions. She is very open to share her own emotions, and very open minded.
Good at listening to themselves, and organizing things, following through on their own decisions. They've got really strong inner strength, and patience with people.
I know a person who is tenacious, knowledgable, kind to people, and willing to show her weakness.
That's not easy!
I know a doctor, she is sympathetic, and I think she is patient, think about her patience.
My idol in my list, is a woman with good knowledge, very brave, has the passion to do things she likes to do, and she's strong enough to fight with people, but she is very kind and gentle.
I like that you mentioned brave, because yes, a lot of the women I know are very brave.
So the pateince is the point, I found that three of us mentioned that three of us mentioned that patience is a very important characteristic. Right?
Yeah.
Actually, I said passion.
Oh, right.

What do the women you know value in life? Value in a partner? Look for in a job? Look for in a living situation?
Let's talk about life, first. Life?
Enjoyment, freedom and happiness.
Feeling at ease.
Always work hard and always play harder.
Always learning, growing, sharing.

Mm!
And also understanding ourselves.
Just behaved like herself.
Cool.
How about 'value in a partner'?
Loyal, honest, mutual respect. Being who they are.
Takes care of self as well as others, a giver, self-sufficient
More patient and more thoughtful.
Likely to listen to their friends
Help each other to grow.
Mm!
Honest, make each other a better person.
I agree with that one too!
Okay, job.
Wait, I want to know, what's your definition of a better person?
I mean, like the partner will point things out for you, like, what they think about something, his view about something, and share and thn you communicate and then you learn from this.
So you will improve?
Yeah, so you keep improving.
Mm!
So...'job'.
Your coworkers are good people, your personal value is recognized, and the work is satisfying, you can grow doing this work.
Willing to share or take responsibility, always have good communication skills, and do things in detail. I think women communicate more easily with people, maybe they have an easy going image.
I think they're trained better in it, too. I mean culturally, socailly trained.
Yeah, smile, and how may I help you?
But what I am experienceing right now is quite the opposite
Really!
You know, my coworker, she's angry all the day, every day at all the people. I don't know if it's something to do with where she grew up, she grew up in Canada. I don't know if it's related.
Maybe she hates to be a teacher, so she's not happy every day.
But she's patient with the kids!
Really!
But she's so impatient with coworkers.
Wow.
Wo this it the always negative one?
Yes.
Wow, we know so much about your coworker.
Yeah, it's better you don't have a chance to meet her!
Okay, getting back to positive things!
Um, the job and life balance is very important. The job cannot influence your personal life. And passionate about their job, and learn from their job.
Self-fulfillment.
Mm!
Okay, then 'living situation'.
We already did that.
No, 'life' is different than 'living situation'.
Personal space, but also communal space, to share and chat together. And the living needs to be near to nature, lots of trees outside.
That's true of a lot of women I know, yeah.
I wrote that, it's more clean, but, I'm thinking about my bedroom.
In my house growing up, the men were pin-neat, but the women were organized but messy. It's the opposite of the stereotype, isn't it, but it's true of a lot of households I know.
Do women have similar habits? Like, we all don't like to sleep late?
I don't think that's true, the opposite, maybe.
I think people are all different

How do the women around you successfully negotiate? How do they successfully deal with conflict among their coworkers, friends or family?
Being angry, and yelling.
I know men that do this too!
Does this work!
Is it good?
Yes, she gets what she wants, but it's not good.
I have a friend...
Do I know her?
...she's very feminine, and she's beautiful, and always talks softly.
So, I don't know her!
So that's how she negotiates.
(mimicking) 'Please, oh, if you can, I'll be very happy', she pulls on your clothes.
So I don't know her! Phew I'm so afraid of that behavior, it's uncomforable!
You want to throw up?
Yeah! But if she does that just once in a a while, it's okay, but if she always do that--
But if you know her, she's a good person, so you won't...you will make friends with her.
You're saying if she's a good person, such behavior is okay, but if she's a bad person--
No, it's a default mode in her life.
So she's born with that.
Or she's trained from birth like that.
Is she the smallest sibling?
I'm not sure, but I don't think it's because of that.
Actually according to family theory I've read, it's the middle children who are like that.
But if this girl was not so nice or something, and she always behaved like that, would she be popular?
I'm not sure, but I think it's kind of interesting. People are always like okay, okay. You know, if she always gets a lot of benefit from this begging behavior, then people maybe feel it's unfair.
It's the opposite of that coworker.
Which one is better?
Begging, I think.
[laughter]
Because angry is too negative to acceptible! So, compared with getting angry.
I don't like either.

Do the women that you know tend to follow other people's rules, or do they tend to make decisions independently?
Follow others rules x3
Independent x1
But this quesiton is too vague.
Yeah, i know, I'm trying to cover a lot of ground.
Because some people do things independently, and others follow rules.
And one women will do both behaviors depending.
Like me, I follow others rules all the time but I also act independently.
There's some intersection about knowing when to be independent and when to follow the group.
If the thing influences my life forever, I think you have to act independent.
...
Perfect is a kind of imperfect.
mind=blown

Do you know what kinds of criteria they base their decisions on? What are the ways the women you know deal with having to make an important decision? How do they go about it?
Okay, for example, this is a guy I know, but i feel it's a very feminine decision making process. He says that he first considers the decision in his brain, all the pros and cons and thinks it through, but then when he's thought it all through he'll just put it down for a long time to see how he feels, a week, a month, and then he'll make the decision based on how he feels.
When I make a decision, like changing a company, or a career path, I will list all the options and the questions, and then hang them on my brain, and then do my daily work.
Could you focus?
Yes
Wow.
Because i have daily work to do, I will list this question, and then I''ll tell myself, I'll make the decsision by next monday, and during the week do my routine job, and my brain will analyze all these things, and then when it gets close to the weekend, then I'll lhave a clear concept, which...
I'm amazed about you can give yourself a deadline.
...well, becase there's always a deadline.
So you always make decisions at the last minute.
Yes
And you don't regret,
No, never.
Okay, for me, big decsisions, I never regret, but small decisions...
Like buying shoes!
...yes!! when I'm buying shoes or clothes, there's all this passion! But when I get home, the passion is gone, and I feel like, ugh.
That's why I like the return policy in the US.
yes!
But here in taiwan, you can return things.
No, it's only exchange.
And some stores, you can't do anything
But costco, you can.
Costco has shit clothes,
But it has more than clothes.
But costco is a US company.
...
She always tells me that she is a shopping expert. She has an eagle eye.
No, but I like shopping.
I try to write down the pros and cons, but usually I still pick my gut feeling.
For me, I try to get my gut feeling, but i have to work around my head, which is full of should's and do this's and why aren't you doing that's and crap like that. Actually, there's a process I have to go through, regardless of when I actually make the decision. That's why i was so impressed you could make a decision on a deadline. Because if I have to make a decision too early, I still have to spend all this time afterwards deciding if I made the right decision. It's better if I have enough time beforehand, then I can make the decision with a clear heart.
Will you discuss with others about your decision?
Depends on the decision.
You know for me,
Why i asked the question is, I used to discuss with friends or family, but finally I thought, it's not so effective. In that situation, I will have to convince not only myself, but also others. They will challenge me, why don't you do this?
So you want to seek their support?
I don't know, I used to discuss with people, 'Which one you think is better, which one is suitable for me?'.
But my sister thinks that proccess is, "You have your desision already, but you just want my support".
No for me, i really haven't made my decision yet, but it turns out other people cannot help me, it just makes things more difficult.
You know, maybe you just need more advanced friends.
But some decisions are absolutely based on what you need.
Huh?
Meaning, if it's not decided by yourslef, there's a large possibility that you will regret. Just like, studying for the ph.d. If you are convinced by your family or something, and you don't really want to do that, then someday, you will feel, because the time is too long, it's a problem, just like that I think.
I used to go on the Internet and search, like yahoo answers.
Hey, yahoo answers are low quality, don't go there.
And it would drive me nuts, because there are so many answers, and...
And they're conflicting, a lot of them!
...but some answers are interesting.
You're like, wow, you really think like that! Okay.
Yeah, some of them don't really make sense.
I think, even, I used to ask my friends, what do you think? But I realized that, they grew up differently, even if they use their logic to decide, they're not the person who's going to go through the decision.
In the end, you still have to make your own decision.
Yeah, everyone else is just there for reference.
It's your life!
But my parents, they are always angry with me not negotiating with them about my decisions. They say i'm always making the desciion and then let them know.
That's how it is!
But before, you would inform them before you did the thing?
I'm talking about decisions that they don't like. So, if I do communicate, it's just gonna make me upset.
You cannot really make the decsision you want. So you choose not to communicate with them in the beginning.
That's one good strategy when people are obstacles.
If you cannot get their support, why bother?
I mean that, if you communicate with others to make your decision, it's a negotiation?
Yes, it's a kind of negotiation.
And sometimes, just want to get their support.
You know, you do need other's support. I thought I didn't need it, but it's not true you really do.
You know, you really need...
I think that's why facebook is so popular, everyone needs the 'like' button.

Final Statements:
We've been talking about all these things and these stories, do you think we can analyze what we've said a bit, and come up with: "What are the qualities that women bring to the table as leaders, business partners, coworkers and citizens?"

Okay, I think women are more holistic, see things as a whole, more balanced and because, now business is too focused on financial benefits, and it's like, if you can make money, then nothing else matters. But actually, there are lots of things, like the environment, like social awareness, that matters. And I think women will face the problems, and try to solve the problems, because a lot of the business nowadays, they try to hide the problems.

I think this question is a little difficult for me, because i'm thinking about a lot of things that I think a good leader...cowoker should have, like they should be professional and flexible, and they should be honest. But I think a good leader, not only women, if he is a man, he should have the same qualities.
Yes!
So i think the only difference, the women is more willing to work like a team, to be part of the time. And they will more appreciate others support, and give credit to others. This is the diffrence between women and men.

I think that just like Amy said, I agree, whether women or men, they have the same character that become a leader, I think. but I think some women leader, they have more flexible characteristic on every issue, they can open their mind to accept other opinions which are different to their own. I think some women leaders they are more soft, 柔軟的身段. They have a soft attide toward everything, expecially decisions. Some men leaders will focus on THEIR opinion...
And THEIR acheivement.
...yes and THEIR acheivement! But some women leader will care about others' thinking and feeling

I think compared to men, women are softer, and more honest. I think these qualities are something that the men's world lacks.
Can you explain what you just said?
You know, because I don't have a role model as a female leader, the principle in my school, she doesn't, she always avoids the critical things that she needs to face, and lets us stand in front.
So i'm not saying...
...
That's actually a point, how do you know what women leaders to look at?
We don't have information from a single story, so it's difficult.
So there are no female leaders to look at.
But why not Tsai Yingwen, why Annette Lu?
Because she's less visible
Lu was the vice president.
Because she says waht she wants and it not afraid of others judgement.
So if you want to be a leader, you have to be brave, you need just not to care too much about other peoples judement about...
But I think it's difficult, if you look at Lu. There are two kinds of people in the world, some are women, some are men. But as women, you can't get men's support. But maybe Tsai can be accepted because her opinions are not so strong.

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