Jealousy, Envy, Harmony

What is jealousy?
What is envy?

These two words are so similar in Chinese and English, even though they don't translate exactly directly in terms of how strong an emotion they convey. What's the relationship between these two emotions?

What does jealousy feel like?
What does envy feel like?
Are they similar or different feelings?

Do you ever feel that if others are doing well, you are less likely to have the same happen to you?
Could fear of envy bring about social harmony? (See story and examples below)
Was that how things worked in any experiences you've had?

Jealousy/Envy and Harmony
Is jealousy or envy based on a fear of not being good enough, to work for or keep something valuable? Is jealousy or envy based on a fear of losing something valuable?
Do these fears have a common root?
Are these fears going to influence group harmony?

Group Harmony and Sense of Self
Is it more important to take care of yourself before others, or others before yourself?
Does taking care of others first, or taking care of yourself first, have any relationship to your sense of your own value?
Does your sense of your own value influence your ability to work well in a group?
Our society values selflessness, and our society also values harmony. Are these two attitudes compatible?
"This sort of serves a useful group function," says van de Ven. We all think better off people should share with others, "but that's not something we are inclined to do when we are better off."
Do you agree or disagree?
What kind of attitude does this quote seem to be talking about?

Harmony & Conflict, Experience & Knowledge

We're continuing our discussion of Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. Previously in this series we discussed Apathy & Compliance, Dignity & Participation.

"…Madison Avenue public relations, middle-class moral hygiene, which has made of conflict or controversy something negative and undesirable. This has all been part of an Advertising Culture that emphasizes getting along with people and avoiding friction. If you look at our television commercials you get the picture that American society is largely devoted to ensuring that no odors come from our mouths or armpits. Consensus is a keynote—one must not offend one's fellow human; and so today we find that people in the mass media are fired for expressing their opinions or being "controversial"; in the churches they are fired for the same reason but the words used there are "lacking in prudence"; and on university campuses, faculty members are fired for the same reason, but the words used there are "personality difficulties."

"Conflict is the essential core of a free and open society. If one were to project the democratic way of life in the form of a musical score, its major theme would be the harmony of dissonance." -Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals p.63

What does 'harmony' mean?
What are the most common contexts in which you hear the word 'harmony' used?
What do you feel when you hear the word harmony? What's your first association with this word?
Chinese culture is historically about harmony. Can we talk more about this?
Why is harmony valued? What about harmony makes it an intrinsic good?

討論逐字稿 Apathy & Compliance, Dignity & Participation

This is the first discussion about Saul Alinsky's book, Rules for Radicals.
Here's the quotes and questions we were discussing.

I think if people want to do something, they will organize the thing by themselves, when they have the feeling of responsibility.
I totally agree.

What's the main thing happening in these two quotes? What state of being is the author describing?

In my opinion, it's about the…in a group, if you don't do anything, it's a benefit for you, so if someone says we can cooperate together, then maybe you can do it. But before that, everything thinks it's not my business, and maybe someone else will do it.
And it occurred to me, there's a tv show from japan. In that show, there's a group of people, they need to serve a mission together, but it's free for everyone, you can join or not. So you can see people are enthusiastic to solve the mission, but other people will think, that's not my business, and there must be someone else to do this, so those people will not do anything. But if the rules of the game changed, that everyone has to solve the mission together, then at that time people will solve it together.
So you have to force people to join it?
Or you have to make it so that if they don't join it, they will lose money.
Many years ago, I joined a conference, and Tsai Yingwen had a presentation at the conference. She said that for government, or political people, if you want to change the situation, you have to make people think it's a big problem, it's everyone's problem.