討論逐字稿 The Courage to Live

We discussed "The Courage to Live".

Saturday Transcript
Concluding Statements
Recently I’ve come here several times, this is the third time. You know, and every time I have to encounter a bunch of questions that challenge me a lot, but this means that I'm kind of in a stage of lots of chaos. Lots of thoughts in my head that I can't put them together to produce something meaningful. But by looking at these questions, not just including this time, and the several questions that were posed last Saturday or Wednesday, so I’ve found out that I might have the gift of giving strategies or solutions. Like two days ago I ate in MacDonald's, and I saw a couple of middle aged women sitting next door, and they were trying to solve a particular problem, and I just couldn’t help but to try to figure out something for them. I knew that it wasn't my business, but I just couldn't help to offer them a solution.
Were they surprised?
It was okay. Kind of, but they were friendly. So, returning to today's article, and especially the last part of the article, which gives us step-by-step solutions to find what we want to do, to realize the kind of personal goal, and I start thinking that I may do it in this way. It does offer me a practical solution to my personal problem. And here comes another fear, that where I am earning my money for, it's the fear that I do not want to continues, so and then there comes another fear that I may have to offer this for free and don't have a real job for awhile, so yeah, it's complicated. And, another thing I want to say is that, um, the reason why I want to study abroad and pick up something, that is because I want to gain some financial details or knowledge ...
But sometimes, I even challenge to my own thought in this question, by this I mean that, when I really have to obtain some knowledge, I still can gain it on my own. Yes, so, sometimes I don't know what to do in the next step, anything could happen. So embrace anything. Embrace that possibility, I think.

Ever since my mom told me she couldn't afford to let me go to cram school, I have suddenly realized there is something I can't control. Before that, I may even believe I can achieve anything. And this kind of crushed me down. And then, I start to conceal myself. By this I mean, I will evaluate whether the problem I'm encountering can gain help from others, otherwise I will keep it to myself. The reason why I stopped learning in both junior and senior high, may be due to the fact that I can't deal with the obstacle I have to face. So I kind of abandon myself, and the high school teacher, although the high school teacher came to ask me what's the problem, I still didn't tell them. Despite that I feel 'what's the point of studying hard and working hard', I haven’t been able to find the real thing I really want to do. So, maybe that's also why I always come back to study hard.
Because it's what you know how to do.
Yeah. Compared with work for some idiot, study is a kind of paradise for me.
Yes, I think this is the reasoning of a lot of people in graduate school.
But recently, I’ve come to know you, Angela, and you kind of reinvigorate, you make me feel this world is still interesting. So that I can still find something I can devote myself to. And all the way, I try to study abroad, or try to improve my English proficiency. In the beginning, it's almost impossible for me, but now I'm glad I insisted on this goal. And maybe the best thing about this whole process is that I have the chance to meet some good people. And I also start to realize sometimes I have to reveal myself to others. And so I'm kind of happy I start to get in touch with my friends too.

So there are three things I want to share with you. This is my second time to come to this group and the last time, it was about boundaries. And I learned, from that Friday discussion on boundaries, that, a view to really look back to myself, where are my boundaries, now. And through the process of growing up, how have the boundaries changed. And that was a very valuable experience. And today, also, I found something interesting after reading the article. The first thing is that after reading the article I’ve started to look back at my moments of fear, as a child as a grownup , at school in family, at work, all these occasions, how I have it and how I deal with it. Something interesting came up. I remember when I was a kid I was afraid to speak in public, yet I still volunteered to participate in a speaking contest. Now I'm like, "what was I thinking?", but that's how I dealt with fear as a kid. I just jumped off the cliff.
So you were really brave.
But for no reason. But I was afraid, even though I was in a choir, I was afraid of singing alone. So I signed up for a singing contest. It worked so well, that I overcame my fear. So I felt that was a solution. But as I grew up, sometimes it doesn’t work. And some occasions that's more complicated than just being afraid to speak in public. For example, when I was in college, I had to face, my uncertainty about the future, what I'm going to do, continue studying. And so facing this kind of fear, it's not that easy to deal with. You can't just throw yourself into it, like signing up for a singing contest. It became very complicated. And the second thing is, reading this article , there's some useful suggestions to train yourself to deal with fear. I feel these are useful for dealing with more complicated fear. Like choosing a career or making a complicated decision that matters to your family or friends as well. I don't know what I will choose, but I found resonance in this one thing, the third thing, the fear to regret. I don't like to regret. I always believed that if you have a chance to do something, you have to do it. There’s an old saying, that opportunities are only for those who are well prepared. That's easy to read, but not easy for people to do. So I firmly believe in this saying, and I realize that I really have fear to regret not doing sthg. In the past two years I'm in a museum, and I really enjoy it, but there's something I have to do, I can't fear losing this job. So I made this decision to study abroad. I was at work, but I decided to give myself one year to prepare for this, and finally, it's going to happen in September. Although there are numerous, probably countless problems I’ll have to deal with when I fly to London, things that I don't know, things that I cannot be sure what will happen, but I think this fear is good for me, it keeps me motivated, keep me alive, that's a very valuable lesson for me, to read this article and join in this discussion.

Discussion
What is the hardest thing in the world for you to do?
Work for somebody who is stupid and arrogant.
[laughter]
Knowing what I really want.
Get off of the internet and start working

What's something you wish you were good at?
Always speak to the point and easily understand, and use a good analogy to make people understand.
I wish I were good at playing basketball. I used to play forward when I was in college, and I found it very difficult to be good at playing basketball. And, you know, since I spent four years doing it at college, it means I really tried hard to do it, but I realized I wasn't able to do it physically and mentally also, but now I graduated successfully. But still I can't play well, it's like a dream, I didn't really complete it.
I know how you feel because that’s how I feel about music.
So what you're saying is you're interested in it.
I don't know, if it's the way I play, or the training, but maybe I didn’t work hard enough.
Maybe what you're really interested in is being with your teammates.
Yes, I know that, I'm a good teammate. But when we were competing, I wasn't good as a teammate, because I'm shorter, and not strong enough. If I'm on the court, I tend to get hurt easily.
Maybe your teammate also prefer to be with you instead of really doing the game.
Yes, I know that. I just wish I could.
Yes, I totally hear you. I wanted to be a professional musician, and I'm just not good enough.
I wish I'm good at swimming.
Oh, like her, you swam, but you didn't get to the Olympics or what?
[laughter]
I wish it were second nature to me. Although I can swim on my back, but I can't regulate my breathing.

What's something that you fail at a lot, but want to do well?
Basketball?
Yes.
Marketing.
IELTS.
I tend to feel that I fail at a lot of things.
That's cuz you're a perfectionist.
But if you want me to name one, I can't remember it at all, because that's my attitude towards facing failure, I just let it go, and don't keep it in mind. But I'm sure there's a lot of failure in my life.
Maybe for her there are only results.
Results are everything! Is that what you mean?
No success, no failure.
??
Even if it's a so called failure, I still can obtain something from that. And even if sb else sees sthg as a success, maybe it's not in my eyes.
According to her definition, there is no failure, but according to my definition, there's a lot.
Cuz your definition is 'not getting what you want'.
Yes.

What's something you want to start now, but are kind of afraid of doing?
I want to start working out every day, that used to be a hobby for me, but in the past three years, I used to jog every day, but since I was quite busy lately, so I gave it up. And I really want to start again, but if I don't keep it as a habit, I may stop doing it again. One day I may be thinking it's okay to relax a little bit, and tomo I might think I need a break.
You know, apparently Jerry Seinfeld does this thing where he takes a wall calandar, and every day that he does something, he colors that date's square in, and as you go along, the line gets longer, and you want to do anything to not break the line, so it's a real motivation to keep doing something. Like filling in the box becomes a reward.
There's lots of things I want to do, but because I’m going to study abroad, it's wise for me to put these things aside, and choose not to do them right now. For example, I want to play piano, I want to exchange my skills with sb else who can teach me. But I can't do it now, I can give it a start but not continue it after awhile. Afraid of it? Yes kind of.
Attending courses at Cambridge. Because I still can't speak like a native speaker, and, it's like exchange students in Taiwan, they can't really immerse themselves into Taiwan, even learning is difficult for them because of language.

When have you been courageous or brave in your life? Stories?
I volunteered my service as a class representative, but when I actually said it my teeth were chattering. My knees were knocking.
Well, a courageous thing in my life, would be changing my field from psychology to building and planning. Since I was a senior high school student, I dreamed to become a student majoring in psychology. That was my high school dream. But when I really got in to the field, it's not what I imagined before, because there are laboratory experiments all the time, and we don't really carry this so-called knowledge into the real world. We can't change the world with anything we're taught, so for me it was a little bit disappointing. And I found it meaningless to carry on.
So Building and Planning is more likely to change the world.
The Department of Building and Planning at NTU is more like a radical institution, and we get involved in lots of social and community activities, so I feel like I’m living in the world now.
And my family at that time kind of feel strange, or they feel like, why are you doing this? You never talked about this.
I was going to talk about a career changing decision. I used to be a poli sci major. But after a failure on a test to enter graduate school, I wanted to think what I did wrong, so I asked a teacher. But he said, you're good at testing, but you don't seem passionate about it. So I thought about it, and decided not to continue, and spent a year searching for my interest, being a research assistant. And I found I'm interested in art, but instead of becoming an artist, I chose to work in art management, and started my career in museums. My parents were surprisingly supportive. They had really wanted me to be a diplomat, because my uncle is, and they felt that becoming a civil servant, they felt its the best choice for a good life. Anyway, I talked with them about my decision, and they were okay with it. I found it's a great decision. I was terrified because I had no experience in teaching or art or cultural organization before. But the more I exposed myself to it, the more I felt like I made the right decision. And in 2008, I went to Boston for an internship, and it was the best time I ever had. I worked on fund raising, put on an exhibition, sent out invitations. The most important thing I found was that it's really comfortable to work in a museum. And I’ve been making decisions without thinking, really. Devoting myself to museums was a sudden decision, I didn't think about whether I could make a living, it just makes me happy, and then also makes my family happy, they get free tickets and I can show them around.

Fear of failure. X3 yes x1 no
Fear of rejection. Depends x4
Fear of going broke. X1 no x3 yes
Fear of being alone. X3 no x1 yes
Fear of humiliation. X2 yes x2 no
Fear of public speaking. X1 no sometimes x2 yes x1
Fear of being ostracized by family and friends. X4 no
Fear of physical discomfort. X1 no dislike, yes x1
Yes x2
Fear of regret.
First, what does it mean?
Didn't do what you are supposed to do
That's what regret means.
What does 'fear of regret' mean?
I think it's fear of not doing something you want or think is right to do.
I agree.
X4 yes
Fear of success.
For me it's being afraid of being changed by success x1
I don't know what is success for me!
It's very complicated to define success.

Can you admit that you're great!
Great in some ways, yes.
Yes, maybe, in some ways.
But if you had to admit that you completely 100% are great?
No.


'Your art' = the thing that you're good at. The particular skill or ability that you have.


What are some strategies for dealing with fear.
Turn to someone who's helpful, like your teacher or friend, who's able to give you constructive opinions. I like to turn to people when I’m facing a fear, and thinking about what to do. I turn to people first.
I go for the internet to, to know more about this thing and prepare it. In that way I can feel more confident in myself, and maybe more strength to help me go through it.
Like in the moment, when you have to do something scary, what do you do?
I take a deep breath.
And then scream?
And then do it with trembling hands. There's one time I had to trap a spider, and take him down to release him outside.

Steve Pavlina says that fear points out where you need to go, it points out the next lesson you need to learn in life. Do you find this to be true in your life?
Or it can be the opposite. Fear is the side that nature tell you not to go in this way. Like you in the mountain with the spider in the path. Why do people have to deal with their fear? They don't need to, if there is no need to. I can avoid it if I want, if it's not necessary for you to do this kind of thing. Or to put it in this way, why do I have to keep a cockroach as a pet to get rid of the fear, what is the point?
I really agree with you, especially that cockroach example.
You know, that was bothering me, because I think you know, sometimes, maybe yes, but sometimes it's not appropriate. Maybe it's showing you what you should avoid for awhile while you work on something else.

She said she's tired of working on her faults, she wants to work on what she's good at, because when she's really good at what she's good at, then her faults won't matter.

My definition of a good friend is someone whose faults don't really bother me, but I really like their good points.


I generally agree with the first sentence: Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear.
 especially the last part, the judgment that something else is more important than fear. Yes, that is really courage. Something beyond that fear.
Like, when you face fear, fear will occupy yourself, but when you're courageous, you don't let fear occupy, when you worry about something else
Like, busy at finding solutions. Suddenly you forget to be afraid.
Like, "I've got no time for fear!"
Well I do have an example, of this not having time for being afraid. Last year when I was throwing a very big ceremony, I’ve been preparing it for two months, and I’ve been having nightmares, it will rain, and all these bad things. So when the day came, in the morning, when everyone's set to rehears, my colleagues boyfriend called to say she had an accident, and she was one of the staff in the ceremony. I was so afraid, because she crashed
Into an oncoming car?
No, she fell, because a car was coming towards her.
I was afraid, because the museum was in the mountain, she could be in danger, and the other thing I was worried is that the ceremony would be ruined, because she was in charge of the music and PowerPoint, and you can’t do the ceremony without it. So I left everyone and ran to where she fell, it took ten minutes, and she was sent away by an ambulance, to make sure she was okay, and found a kid to operate the computer.
And it worked out?
Well, I was so afraid, I didn't have time to figure out if it would work out. But actually she came back before the ceremony, she had a bump on her head, but she was okay.
But after the ceremony?
You started to think all the fear stuff, that you didn't have time for before.

I find the older I get, the more I'm conditioning myself to be cautious about things.

Maybe when it comes to free working, I don't even know what kind of job I want to work.

Actually this part of the whole article is the most interesting to me. It does nurture me, in the way that I wish that someday I can try to…because recently, I found myself, that I'm good at giving strategies, giving solutions. So maybe one day, I can do it for free, like this guy, in the video, do it for free for awhile, and it's doable.
I think it's a good strategy for getting yourself in to a field
And the time schedule is more flexible, so I don't have to devote myself like...
Sometimes we even pay money to do jobs for others.
What do you mean?
Just like every PhD students on campus. I mean, they pay college fees,
Oh, and then they're working for their professors.
Paying their dues. That's such a bullshit phrase. It's just a way of forcing people to work for free.


Friday Transcript
Staircase wit = when you think of the right thing to say, as you're walking away and it's too late

You were but a twinkle in your mother's/father's eye

What is the hardest thing in the world for you to do?
Get up early on the weekend!
Yeah!
Turning off the internet to do work.
To make a speech

What's something you wish you were good at?
Persuading others to accept my ideas.
To be eloquent.
Marketing.
Earning money.

What's something that you fail at a lot, but want to do well?
I fail a lot at this, but i don't want to do well. To be sociable.
Why don't you want to do well?
I don't know, there's no benefit to it.
There is!
What is it?
I know, you haven't really experienced any benefit. Wait, how do you not receive benefit?
I don't know, i just don't feel there's any benefit to it.
So talking with us now is a waste of time?
This is not sociable.
She talks to us with her real heart
Oh, i get it.
But social skills is a very important skill for working.
Or keeping relationships.
What kind of relationships?
Working field, business relationships.
Yes, but i keep good relationships with my coworker, but i am not sociable.
But you do to, you go out to ilan with them.
But it's not something i really want to do, it's an obligation.
Your definition of sociable is: making small talk with people you don't care about.
Yes.
Dancing. I fail a lot at it.
But you want to be good?
Actually not good, just be better, is good enough.
Give interesting speeches, and make interesting conversation.
I think you've got the second one down already.
Really?
Yes, you always say interesting stuff here.
Play music like a real musician.

Astigmatism


What's something you want to start now, but are kind of afraid of doing?
Painting.

Move to another place.
Forever?
Not forever, but i'm renting a room now, but actually i want to move to near to my company.
There's a lot of decent places near there.
But i don't want to break the balance, since i've already gotten used to where i am.
I've wanted be self-employed, but, because i think i'm not prepared very well.

I want to write something, but i'm afraid to promise myself to do it, because i always fail.
How do you fail?
Too lazy.
Oh, that's a fail, yeah.
Or i always think that, you know, i won't do it good enough. I won't be good enough at it.


When have you been courageous or brave in your life? Stories?
To kill a really really huge cockroach. This big.
How will you do it?
I will follow it, and wait for the best moment, although i'm shaking.
What did you use, slipper?
I used a broom.
But won't it get through the bristles?
So you need to wait till the right moment and hit it really hard. But i knew i needed to kill it, or...
It will stay in your room!
That's hard.
It really is! When they're that big.
And i killed two in one night. Actually, i wanted to get a third one, but it escaped.

Move out of my parents house.
Without getting married!
Mm!

Well, when i started in senior high school, I'm stupid at math. But i chose to major in finance. I think i was brave at that time.
So why did you choose finance?
Because i thought, if i could overcome this big enemy, then there's no one can beat me, anymore.
But this finance have something to do with math
A lot.
I'm sorry, what?
Sometimes things are different subjects.
We need to study statistics, and probability, and calculus。
I like calculus, but i'm slow at it.

Fear of failure. X4 yes
Fear of rejection. X3 yes it depends
Fear of going broke. X3 no x1 yes
Fear of being alone. (romantically) x4 no
Fear of humiliation. 丟臉 x3 x1
Fear of public speaking. X2 x2
Fear of being ostracized 排斥 by family and friends. X2 no x2 yes
Fear of physical discomfort. X1 no
Three or four years ago, it's okay. But not now. Because i'm so tired! And i'm not young anymore
I don't like physical discomfort, but it's not about being afraid.
I agree with that x3
Fear of regret. X1 yes
What does that mean?
It means afraid of doing something that you'll regret.
Regret is regret.
Meaning, you don't want to regret it, so you avoid doing it.
For instance, you know if you don't do something, you will regret it later, and because you're afraid of regretting something
The red hot chili peppers said, i's better to regret doing something than to regret something you didn't do
But i think both things are annoying.
It's true.
Fear of success.
What's that mean?
It means you're afraid of actually getting to do what you want to do.
I think no one will admit to this, but some people will sabotage themselves to avoid being successful.
I don't have this problem
Because you're not successful.
Exactly! According to the social standard.
If you realize that, well, it's just like that, being successful is just like, wow, it's just like, you know, nothing. It doesn't give you ultimate happiness.

Can you admit that you're great?
No.
In what way?
That' you're great, at what you do! That everyone is great.
There's this thing, called 'your art'. It's the thing that you can do, that no one else can do. But everyone is great at their 'art'.
But some people will tell you that you aren't good.
Yeah, haters gonna hate.
No matter how well you do, there's always someone who's going to hate it.
Or hate on you, meaning, try to tear you down for being who you are

Meme = viral idea


Condition yourself to be courageous.
First reaction?
People tend to avoid facing fear.
Do you think it's true?
Yes. True.
If i can get huge benefit from overcoming fear, i think it works.
I wonder, when you're brave, do you get an emotional reward from it?
I think so. When you overcome a certain kind of fear, you feel you grow.

start small, in a separate section of your life, and nurture it.
Reaction?
When we start small, it's not so easy to fail. And then it's easier to earn confidence, then you will want to move on.
Keep going.
Like, i start to ride a motorcycle, i chose a small one, and it makes me feel it's easy to do this.
Like could you use this process to do the writing that you said you were afraid of?
Well, of course i could try this way, but i cannot see the results, yet.

Concluding statements:
I feel that we haven't got into the core, we haven't discussed the core yet, and we have to do the two minute statement.
So what is the core?
Okay, fear points out where you need to grow. I feel i quite agree with this.
Me too.
But we haven’t' discussed it yet.
But wait, i'm afraid of everything, does that mean i have to grow everywhere?
You have a lot to grow. But i don't think that we are afraid of everything. We are afraid of certain things. But what people are afraid of, is different. Like, Allie is never afraid of going travelling by herself. But for me, i’m afraid of that.
So how does that mean where you have to grow.
To be 100% independent.
Wow, you’re quite clear on that.
And i'm afraid of authority. I think there are people who are not afraid of authority.
People who will stand up to it, you mean.
Yeah, no matter what.

The statement, fear points out… also gives me some thoughts. I think, we feel afraid because we don't want to lose something, we don't want to lose a good relationship, we don't want to lose face, we don't want to lose money. And we want to keep confidence, keep success. So, when something makes us feel afraid, they always show our shortcomings, so that's why this guy says, fear points out where we need to grow. For instance, i fear to speak in public, and that's because i think i'm not good at giving an interesting speech, and i want to improve on this point.

The fourth biggest fear is death. But the first one is public speaking. We're more afraid of public speaking than death.
Choose: speak in public or die~!
Die!!
Choose: speak in public or die~!
Obvs speak in public!
But i feel most americans are eloquent, they can do a speech anytime anywhere
I think you've only met americans who've travelled, this is a different kind of american.


I think fear is a compared feeling. Just like, if you must face this question every day, you will look more seriously at this problem. Just like speaking in public. You have more chances to face this problem, compared to facing death. You know, you can't feel the threat of death every day, but you must often face speaking in public. That's why everyone chooses speaking in pub as their fear. But death is more serious than speaking in public, i think! We often put more focus on something you face all the time. But you actually, we actually ignore something more important, that's really serious. We ignore the more serious event, like death, or something you never feel, but actually that's the big problem.
Wow, i like this statement.
Thank you, the deep fear in our hearts, that's the point we really fear. Just like, maybe you never feel it, but you really fear it.

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